I was sitting in my ethics class listening to a discussion of the history of abortion. We had teams who each had a topic to discuss, and this weeks presentation was abortion. I knew from the get go that a lot of people in the class would not like what I had to say and I knew it was likely to upset some people during our discussion. After their presentation we were all given discussion questions. The following situation was proposed to the class:
A woman who has two children has lost her job and is now on welfare. Her birth control fails and she is pregnant. Should she be allowed to have an abortion and is this the best decision for her?
My answer was a resounding: NO.
First, let me start by saying I am not 100% against abortion. However, I do feel like abortion should not be used as birth control.
The person giving the presentation asked me why I felt this woman should not have an abortion given the fact that she was already on welfare and couldn’t support the children she had. My simple answer was the women should not have been having sex in the first place.
The gasp of horror that followed really shocked me. The outrage that followed actually made me laugh. This is how to conversation went from then on:
Presenter: You don’t feel like a grown woman has the RIGHT to have sex when she wants?
Me: No, I feel like she should be taking care of the two children she has and trying to FIND A JOB.
Presenter: You can’t tell a grown woman she can’t have sex.
Me: No, I can’t, but what I can say is that her current children come first, and she needs to grow up and stop thinking about her non-necessary physical needs and take care of her children. That includes NOT bringing a man into her home to have sex when he is not supporting the children and is making their situation worse. Furthermore, if she is out looking for a job during the day, her time at night needs to be spent making sure her children are getting an education, and that she is spending time with them. I don’t really see where unnecessary sex with a man who is not committed to her is helping the situation.
*more gasps of horror*
Presenter: Well, if she is stressed out, you know that some people use sex as stress relief.
Me: If that is the case then she can masturbate until her heart is content. I am sure people don’t get pregnant from masturbation.
Presenter: Whatever, you don’t know what you are talking about you must not have children.
Me: No, I don’t, but if I did I would obviously raise them better than her.
(At this point she really started to lose it and I realized that perhaps this is what happened to her. Perhaps she was giving her own personal story and felt like I was attacking her. I still stand by what I said.)
That is where I disagreed with her. Animals rut. Humans don’t. People need to realize that just because they CAN have sex doesn’t mean they should or that it is their god given right to mate whenever they feel like it. There are times and situations where sex should be the least important thing in life. I really don’t understand the mentality of people who think life handed them lemons and they were screwed over, when the reality is they created the situation themselves.
Do you think in a situation like the one listed above that a woman should have an abortion?
mendedwheels.wordpress.com 
May 11, 2008 at 11:24 am
@Jenavee – I have read every comment here and don’t find any of them boring. I am glad you enjoyed it though!
May 11, 2008 at 2:12 pm
thats sad
May 11, 2008 at 2:43 pm
The birth control failed? Isn’t that like 99.99% effective? That’s gotta suck, though. I mean…people usually don’t look at the whole grand scheme of things, they just think…”hey, I’m on birth control…put it in my vagina”. It may be the case that they don’t get pregnant, but no one can be absolutely sure that nothing would go wrong. On friday, we didn’t have a teacher in my 7th period class, so I skipped (for the first time) with one of my good friends. Everything went okay until I slipped on the stairs and almost fell (I felt like an idiot because it was in front of all the bus drivers).I mean…sure, a woman has the right to have sex, but she shouldn’t have the right to have sex, get pregnant, and get an abortion because she wasn’t financially ready. But what about this…let’s say that I’m 18 (which I am), and I have the right to look at pornography (which I do occasionally), how would you feel if I said I look at porn and masturbate while my sister is in the room? That’s disgusting in many levels, but ultimately….it is wrong (and that’s just an example, I don’t actually do that).My point is that just because you have the right to do something, doesn’t mean that it will be taken lightly. Abortion is a big deal. There are sisters out there who get raped/sexually molested by their own fathers, uncles, brothers, anybody related or not related. Killing a baby because you weren’t ready to have one shouldn’t be one of those things where you can just kill them and move on with your life. Sure, they’re newborn and they don’t have much idea of what’s going on when they’re born as compared to kids who get murdered, but life is still life.
May 11, 2008 at 5:07 pm
this might sound awkward but how do you know that the woman didnt raise her children properly(well, i guess) ?? i think one can raise and treat their children and have sex in the same time. dont you think so?
May 11, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I do not feel that she should. She went and had sex without responsibility. She should take that responsibility. Props to you for saying what you believed.
May 11, 2008 at 5:22 pm
@flamingogirl6 – If the woman had a job and was living in normal circumstnces, of course she should date and do things a normal person would do. However, she was NOT in a “normal” situation, and anytime you consider your own needs before those of your children, I consider that bad parenting.She’s on welfare, but she can afford the $400-$500 for an abortion? Wouldn’t her other children benefit more from that money? Selfishness is NOT good parenting, and in my opinion this woman is being selfish all the way around.
May 11, 2008 at 6:17 pm
woah thats is a really interesting point, and i totally agree but i am 100% against abortion so ya…
May 11, 2008 at 6:55 pm
No, whatthehell, it would be her responsibility to raise the child. She cannot just opt out from bringing a baby into the world. Life isn’t a game, and generally, sex isn’t either.I agree that it is a matter of self-control. It’s annoying when people try to deny they were irresponsible about things like these.
May 12, 2008 at 10:22 am
@JandJinJapan – Whoa whoa…I didn’t say her children should be taken away from her. What I did say is what I see her doing is bad parenting. I think I have however been inspired to do another post. >=)
May 12, 2008 at 10:23 am
Southernlass, you were right on the money!!! Would that we could all “gasp” a class and tick off people in such a way!!! Maybe if we get enough people angry, they’ll THINK about this blight in American Society!!!!No, she shouldn’t get or be allowed to have the abortion (in fact, her children should be taken away, in my opinion, until she can set her life straight), and I agree 100% with what you said: women who have children already, no job, and are on welfare should not have sex with men they choose not to be married to. My tax dollars go to feed and house those women (I wish it were just the children, but that is, unfortunately, the way the US Welfare System works: the ne’er-do-well mothers get the money to spend it how they choose — and before soemone tells me I have no idea about this, I do: I have a cousin who has seven children, hasn’t held down a job for more than a year, and her children are all fathered by at least four different men), and personally, I see it as a slap in the face to myself and the millions of other working Americans who are taxed to the gills to pay for women who are basically baby machines and sex tools.As this great postor wrote, no-one can stop a grown woman from having sex….but we surely can take her children away from her and help her to learn that there are consequences to bad choices in life. The reason we have so many single mothers on welfare is precisely because we, as an American Society, have ceased in teaching consequences to poor choices. The sooner we wise up, the better….actually, the sooner we do it God’s way, the better…
May 12, 2008 at 10:28 am
@Southernlass – Like I posted a minute ago, I have a cousin in this same situation. She has seven, and I believe that if her children had been taken from her in the beginning, when she decided to walk out on her husband, go on welfare, go on drugs, and sleep around, it may have shaped her up. I know its extreme, but if the woman in question doesn_t get the full idea of what consequences await for terrible choices, where will it lead? To a third child? A fourth? And who foots the bill for her, if US Taxpayers don’t? Sorry if I sound empassioned by this, but my cousin is doing as bang-up job of ruining her childrens’ lives…
May 12, 2008 at 10:41 am
@JandJinJapan – Agreed, but then that is more of an issue with the welfare system. The welfare system here is designed to keep people on it. Until something changes in that department, then then problem with welfare queens will still exist! If I got started on what I really think about a lot of the welfare issues…people would hate me! XD
May 12, 2008 at 10:43 am
@Southernlass – Naah, people’d respect you!!!! Well said…..
May 12, 2008 at 1:24 pm
props… for standing up for what is right… this was so funnie “Me: If that is the case then she can masturbate until her heart is content. I am sure people don’t get pregnant from masturbation.”
May 12, 2008 at 10:53 pm
@indigolady – OMG ! took the words out of my head. very truee tho’ . People tend to piss me off because of this …
June 27, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Too bad most people don’t feel this way, ie. putting their children first and instead of pretending to be the cast of sex and the city, growing up and being a role model
June 27, 2008 at 2:09 pm
I don’t believe a woman even in the said situation should be able to have an abortion. Firstly, she was selfish and placed her own needs ahead of her children’s. Secondly, there are multiple birth controls that can be used together. Thirdly, there is the option of placing the child up for adoption. I can understand how that could be difficult for a mother to do, but it is a better option that having an abortion and losing the child completely.I agree with how you responded to the question in your class.
June 27, 2008 at 2:22 pm
“Yet, she chose to bring another man into her home to have sex to fufill her physical needs…….Not only that what kind of example is she setting for her children by having men and in out of the house during the formative years of their lives? She is spreading the example that it is ok to sleep around and get knocked up by various men to her children.”Perhaps you have a misperception about this woman. Seems like she is getting all the blame for this, when she may very well have been handling this quite responsibly.First of all, let me say I am against abortion, and I do not feel it is right to kill an unborn baby – and it IS a baby, a human being, from day one. It’s not a fish or a dog or a cow. I saw my daughter’s heart beating on the sonogram at only 6 weeks after conception. It wasn’t MY heart that was beating – it was hers. Abortion would have killed HER, not part of my body.Now, back to the woman. Her birth control failed. That happens all the time, even in “responsible” relationships like marriage. She was being responsible – she was taking the best steps she could to have a responsible sexual relationship. And maybe it wasn’t “just” a casual sexual relationship – maybe she was deeply in love with this man; maybe she was in a very loving relationship and planned on marrying him, and maybe she wanted her other kids to have a father figure in their lives, since we don’t know how they lost their first father. Maybe she didn’t have a whole string of men over just to have sex – perhaps when she was “with” him, she was at his place having a date, keeping the intimacy away from her kids, and the kids were being temporarily babysat by good people who knew the mother needed to go out some, and try to build a new life for herself and her children. So single mothers should never date, try to meet anyone new, have loving relationships? They should always stay alone and lonely and never remarry? Do you actually know, from firsthand experience, how terribly lonely and isolating single parenting can be? People need other people, and it’s always better for children to have two parents, and perhaps she was hoping to have that for her other children with this man. Yes, in the end, her situation was made worse, but surely she didn’t plan it that way. She wanted something better. She may not have been getting pregnant by “various men” by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe the guy had promised her all kinds of things and then bailed on the commitment. Unfortunately, that happens way too often. Men can be dogs – not all men – and run from commitment, showing such behavior much too late into the relationship. Why is the woman getting all the blame for this new life? What about the father? Where is he in all of this? Where does HIS responsibility come into play?Is welfare and her jobless state the only issue here, as far as her not “being responsible”? Perhaps it was in her children’s best interest, depending on their ages, that she be a stay-at-home mom during these years of their lives. I don’t think she should have gotten an abortion, but I also don’t think she should be condemned. How do I know?Because I am that woman. I was widowed when my children were 5 and 8. I was raising them alone, staying home with them on survivor benefits – granted, not welfare, but I wasn’t working – when I met and fell in love with my daughter’s father, who was also widowed. At the time, he appeared to be everything I wanted for my life companion, my children’s stepfather, everything….We were engaged, I had moved to be near him so that we could get married, when we found out the birth control had failed. We were being responsible, we had both been tested for STD’s before becoming intimate, to reassure the other person, I had doctor appointments and had the best birth control for me. I had a ring on my finger and we had plans and hopes and dreams to blend our families. I could no more have aborted my daughter than any of the other kids, or given her up for adoption. As an adoptee myself, I had to keep and be responsible for my own baby. My heart couldn’t have borne yet another loss. My two boys happened during my marriage, and they were “gifts,” also. Some people are apparently more fertile, despite trying to “plan” better. So what happened? He bailed. He started showing his true colors, which meant not being as good of a dad to his own kids as he had first bluffed. He offered to support our daughter, but only to “stop by” 15 minutes a day. He offered marriage and family to get me to move near him, but once I was there, he caved and failed to follow through with any of the plans we made, leaving me in the lurch. So no, I did not have strings of “various men” parading through my house to have sex with me. No, I did not find men off the streets or off the internet to have sex with. No, I did not fail to work because of simply no job – my kids needed me. But I did not turn my back on my daughter….while her father has turned his back, I have not. She has been a blessing, and while it’s been difficult as a single parent, I have certainly been responsible. Was I wrong to have her, and keep her? I don’t think so. I have worked part time to supplement our income, I have invested deeply in their educations, and I went back to school to get my teaching certificate once my daughter was in kindergarten full time, and now I am a teacher and working single mother. Do you think I EVER wanted to be a single mother? Or wanted my husband to die and leave me with two kids? Or to have met somebody “wonderful” and find out he was not as wonderful as I thought, someone who ducked his responsibilities to me and his child, and my other children? No single mother wants to be in that situation. I can’t imagine life without my daughter now; neither can the boys….it has been difficult, but we are survivors. There are no strings of men for most single mothers. We are too busy taking care of our kids to even try to date one person, usually. Don’t lump us all together as if we’re all sex-starved whores. Sex doesn’t happen unless I’m in a loving relationship that I expect to result in marriage and family commitment, so therefore, it doesn’t happen. I don’t have time for games or phony men. Yes, I probably should have “waited” until after the wedding ring was on my finger, to be completely on the up and up, but honestly, that’s no guarantee, either. I have seen many, many marriages fail and husbands bail, so that’s no reassurance. Unfortunately, even with couples who are “responsible” about birth control, if there are unintended pregnancies, STD’s, anything like that, it’s the women and children who become the “victims” of the dire consequences and hardships that often result – not the men – even if the couple was married. More health problems, more expenses, more of everything – and it usually falls on the woman’s shoulders. Men need to step up and take their responsibilities more seriously.
June 27, 2008 at 2:40 pm
And take her children away from her? For having a third child? Is she on drugs? Has she committed a crime? Does she abuse her other children? There’s not even any evidence that she has neglected them. Everyone assumes the worst – that because she had sex and got pregnant, that she was “sleeping around” and neglecting her children. Yes, there probably are people like that, but not all of us single mothers are like that – including those of us single mothers who do date occasionally or end up having a meaningful relationship with another male someday that hopefully leads to marriage. Should all single mothers be sterilized? Required to enter a convent? Have their children taken away so we do not mess them up? Do not equate “single mother” with “bad mother” or “whore.’ That’s really offensive.
June 27, 2008 at 2:57 pm
@musicmom60 – Are you directing that at a particular comment or just in general?
June 27, 2008 at 2:58 pm
@musicmom60 – In response to your comments :)The person giving the presentation asked me why I felt this woman should not have an abortion given the fact that she was already on welfare and couldn’t support the children she had. That includes NOT bringing a man into her home to have sex when he is not supporting the children and is making their situation worse. Perhaps what I say may seem judgemental, but by no means am I being judgemental towards single parents. Am I a parent? Nope. I was not lucky enough to be blessed with children during my marriage, and that is why situations like the one listed make me angry.She couldn’t support the children she already had. I believe there is a big difference between living on survivor benefits or disability and living off of strictly welfare. A women who recently became unemployed and couldn’t support herself or her two children was in a sexual relationship. Regardless of the status of that relationship, (As I said in various other comments, YES WHAT ABOUT THE DAD?!!! What if he DID want the child???) choosing to put the welfare of your current children and yourself at risk for the means of physical pleasure is irresponsible in my eyes.The difference is you WERE capable of supporting your children and you worked at changing your life. You didn’t say “Oops!!!”, have an abortion and then go about your merry way with life. You made the responsible choice, and decided that you would keep the child you made a choice to help create by choosing to have sex.I get so frustrated at the people who choose to have sex without realizing what the consequences may be. Every single packet of birth control says it is not 100% effective. We know when we have sex, regardless of the type of protection we use, we have a chance to get pregnant. If we make the choice to have sex, we are choosing that we could potentially have a child out of that act.Unfortunately, yes, men can be dogs. Unfortunately, far too many women use sex in an attempt to “trap” a man. (Not saying you did). But, as a woman who is the only person who has control over her body, can you honestly tell me that living on welfare and being unable to support the 3 people you already have in your care, is a good time to choose to take the risk of pregnancy?We are humans and we have the choice to have sex. We are not required to do it, it’s not a “right”. Just because we CAN do something, doesn’t mean we SHOULD.So, yes, even after reading your personal story, and I am honored you shared it, I am going to maintain that I think what she did was irresponsible. I am also going to look at you with a lot more respect for being woman enough to make yourself a better person in a bad situation. Wait, not bad, just tough. And I am sincerely sorry that you were widowed at such a young age. I came close to it myself last year, and I know how stressful it is.
June 27, 2008 at 2:58 pm
@Southernlass – Just in general, I saw that several people had mentioned that.
June 27, 2008 at 3:19 pm
@Southernlass – I just get torqued off when people tend to lump all single mothers as having gotten their by “bad choices” – not always the case. Most people automatically assume you’re divorced (oooh! a failure! made a bad choice and did the big, bad divorced thing!) or that you”ve never been married and are just having children randomly with every guy that comes along. Even divorced single moms shouldn’t be so ostracized, because lots of them never wanted to be in that situation and never would have chosen it for themselves. Perhaps they were abused, or the children were not safe, or the guy had addictions of some kind. Women get put into all kinds of horrible situations with their children because of the behavior of men, unfortunately. Yes, some women make very bad choices – drugs, alcohol, child abuse, neglect, whoring around – but certainly not all, or even the majority. I imagine there are lots of new military widows these days, with the war going on, and they are going to face the same kind of challenges that I have faced, and it’s very difficult. Even many active duty families are on food stamps because the military doesn’t pay them enough. What’s going to happen to the newer young widows? Our economy is to blame for lots of this, especially right now.I think we just have to look at each situation individually and not make assumptions about people because of the ‘labels” society gives them.Even as a teacher, I am “unemployed” right now, and looking for a new position. I was RIF’ed, along with many other teachers in my district. Is that my fault? No, and I hope I’ll find something else, I’m certainly looking, but I dont’ know for sure that it will happen. I still have to take care of my children, no matter what, and if we end up on food stamps because I lost my job, then so be it – the first priority is taking care of them and making sure they are fed and healthy and have a roof over their heads. Not everyone has the luxury of the traditional, perfect little happy married family, two incomes and a husband, even if we would choose that.I do agree with you on all the abortion things, though – it’s not a form of birth control. I wish they’d come up with something that allowed responsible people, including long term couples and married people, to have healthy, loving relationships but that guaranteed they could plan their families within their financial and practical means without having to give up intimacy, which is so important to overall health and well-being. I’m not talking about casual, “stress-relieving” sex, I mean a loving, committed union. We all need that. We don’t all have it, but I do believe it is a basic human need, to be loved and to be shown affection. To be starved of that creates illness and all manner of difficulties. But we don’t live in an ideal world, unfortunately.
June 27, 2008 at 3:33 pm
@musicmom60 – I understand getting upset over being thrown into a generalized group. HELLLO I’m a fat chick. Must be eating burgers all day right?! The funny thing is, I am not thinking we disagree at all. You’ve done everything I said this woman SHOULD have done and then some. Even in your last reply: I still have to take care of my children, no matter what, and if we end up on food stamps because I lost my job, then so be it – the first priority is taking care of them and making sure they are fed and healthy and have a roof over their heads. See? You didn’t say your first priority is having a loving relationship with another adult. You said it is taking care of the kiddos!I agree that people crave love, affection, and other human contact. I just don’t think it should ever be to the detriment of yourself of your children.